In this outtake from Gary Hustwit’s documentary Helvetica, the late designer Massimo Vignelli discusses the controversial NYC subway map designed by his firm Vignelli Associates in 1972, and realizes the mistake he made.

Order The New York Subway Map Debate book now and receive a pre-order discount, early shipping and a free letterpress print. The discovery of a lost audio recording sheds new light on a pivotal event in design history: the 1978 debate at Cooper Union between designer Massimo Vignelli and cartographer John Tauranac over the future of the NYC Subway Map. This new book features the full transcript of the debate and the discussion that followed, along with never-before-seen photographs of the evening by Stan Ries, plus new interviews and a foreword by Paula Scher. The New York Subway Map Debate opens a hyper-specific window into a moment in New York design history and the eternal struggle between form and content. Co-published with Standards Manual. Pre-order now.